The Passion Play: Living the Story of Christ's Last Days with Rev. Rob Fuquay
In Episode 58 of The United Methodist People Podcast Rev. Dr. Brad Miller talks with Rev. Rob Fuquay of St. Luke's UMC-Indianapolis about his new book and Lenten resource "The Passion Play-Living the Story of Christ's Last Days" which is inspired by the Oberammergau Passionsspiele.
Jesus' Passion Story is presented each Lent in countless churches each year. But one play presented by the inhabitants of the village of Oberammergau, in Bavaria Germany, may be one of the longest-running performances of all. Staged every 10 years since 1634. To play makes an impact not only on the villagers who portray the characters and all who see it as well. And the passion play Rob Fuquay follows the biblical story of the passion and shows how this amazing play as we use both as a ritual of praise and later as a weapon through that's anti-semitic past.
Brad and Rob talk about the book at length in this interview including its relevance in today's world of pandemics and anxiousness.
The United Methodist People Podcast is produced by Rev. Dr. Brad Miller a retired UMC Elder with a heart for "doing all the good I can; particularly in anxious times."
The United Methodist People Podcast is all about sharing the story of the United Methodist people who have similar commitments to doing all the good they can through conversation and commentary.
To Purchase "The Passion Play-Living the Story of Christ's Last Days" Go to:
https://www.cokesbury.com/the-passion-play
If you like The United Methodist People Podcast then you are invited to try one of the following podcasts Rev. Dr. Brad Miller is involved with.
To Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble (co-host)
https://www.tobeencouraged.com/
Voice of God Daily Bible Study
https://www.voiceofgoddaily.com/
Beyond Adversity: Helping People Navigate Adverse Life Events and Emerge Victoriously.
Transcript
Hello, good people. Welcome to the United Methodist
Brad Miller:people podcast with Reverend Dr. Brad Miller. This is the podcast
Brad Miller:where we look to strengthen the connection in the United
Brad Miller:Methodist Church through conversation, and commentary.
Brad Miller:And we like to lift up resources from time to time that can be
Brad Miller:helpful in your local church and in your own personal devotional
Brad Miller:life. And it's our privilege to have Rob Fuquay with us today,
Brad Miller:Pastor Rob frequent Reverend Rob Fuquay, from the St. Luke's
Brad Miller:United Methodist Church in Indianapolis, Indiana. He's a
Brad Miller:past contributor to United Methodist people podcast, he has
Brad Miller:a new resource called the passion play living the story of
Brad Miller:Christ last day, inspired by the homograph passion Spiel in
Brad Miller:Germany, and we welcome you to the to United Methodist people
Brad Miller:podcast today, Rob. Thank you.
Rob Fuquay:Thank you, Brad, always good to be with you. And
Rob Fuquay:it's been a while since we've done this, I know go back to
Rob Fuquay:prior to the pandemic. Yes. So and to be back with you for
Rob Fuquay:this. It is awesome to be back with you. And we've had great
Rob Fuquay:conversation in the past about lots of things involving life in
Rob Fuquay:the church and resources that you've come up with and things
Rob Fuquay:like that. But just for our listeners, give us just a brief
Rob Fuquay:kind of thumbnail of who you are, what you're about and maybe
Rob Fuquay:some of the past resources you've been involved with. Sure.
Rob Fuquay:So I have been the senior pastor here at St. Luke's United
Rob Fuquay:Methodist Church in the northern part of Indianapolis for about
Rob Fuquay:10 and a half years now I've got here in August of 2011. Follow
Rob Fuquay:Dr. Kip Mullard, who had been the senior pastor for 18 years
Rob Fuquay:prior and hard to believe it's already been more than a decade.
Rob Fuquay:I think it was shortly into my time you and I did a podcast
Rob Fuquay:together. And can you believe it? You know, that's been about
Rob Fuquay:10 years ago, that's when I started podcasting was 10 years
Rob Fuquay:ago. So yeah.
Rob Fuquay:So I'm originally from North Carolina was a member of the
Rob Fuquay:western North Carolina conference before coming here
Rob Fuquay:and have served a variety of appointments I started out in
Rob Fuquay:well, actually, my very first full time Minister experience
Rob Fuquay:out of seminary was in Bristol, England, and well and serve the
Rob Fuquay:church just off the campus of the University of Bristol. And
Rob Fuquay:that was part of an exchange program seminary students did in
Rob Fuquay:from the United States with the British conference. And I waited
Rob Fuquay:until after I finished to do it. Many students do it somewhere in
Rob Fuquay:the middle of their of their studies, take a semester or a
Rob Fuquay:year off to go serve a church I waited till afterward. So it was
Rob Fuquay:kind of my first appointment. Then I went to a small two point
Rob Fuquay:charge in the mountains of western North Carolina, from
Rob Fuquay:there was an associate pastor at a very large, our fastest
Rob Fuquay:growing church at the time outside of Charlotte, then to a
Rob Fuquay:medium sized congregation back in the mountains just off the
Rob Fuquay:grounds of Lake junaluska that grew into a large church went to
Rob Fuquay:another church just a little bit larger than to St Luke's which
Rob Fuquay:would be considered a megachurch. So it's a variety of
Rob Fuquay:ministry experience that I'm really, really grateful for. And
Rob Fuquay:I think it it gets reflected in the writing that I've done since
Rob Fuquay:I've been at St. Luke's I've been fortunate to produce a
Rob Fuquay:number of resources. Three with the upper room. The first one I
Rob Fuquay:did is the God you can know which is a series based on the I
Rob Fuquay:am sayings of Jesus, and then did a fun series based on the
Rob Fuquay:flags of racing, taking the flag, and it was the same
Rob Fuquay:format. It was a meant for small group studies in churches. So
Rob Fuquay:it's a book but also a DVD companion. Then a study on Paul
Rob Fuquay:thinking about our our purpose in life which way Lord is the
Rob Fuquay:name of that one. And again filmed on location in Greece in
Rob Fuquay:Turkey traveling the sights of Paul and then with Abington, a
Rob Fuquay:several years ago in preparation for the 500th anniversary of the
Rob Fuquay:Protestant Reformation under Martin Luther and 2017 did a
Rob Fuquay:resource called a new reformation. And then in 2018, I
Rob Fuquay:was contacted by the publishing house to let me know about a
Rob Fuquay:project they were doing with educational opportunities. P. eo
Rob Fuquay:is a travel Christian travel company that works predominantly
Rob Fuquay:with United Methodist churches leading Christian tours and I
Rob Fuquay:think he may be the largest group that takes people to the
Rob Fuquay:passion play in Germany and I can tell more about that in a
Rob Fuquay:moment but anyway, they were doing this combined effort to
Rob Fuquay:produce a resource that could not only be something like a
Rob Fuquay:travel guide for people going to Ober amor gal for the passion
Rob Fuquay:play in 2020. But it would also be something relative and
Rob Fuquay:meaningful to people in churches who would not be going To the
Rob Fuquay:passion play, so it needed to have some some spiritual value
Rob Fuquay:and takeaway that would apply to anybody. So that was kind of a
Rob Fuquay:unique challenge with this to base the themes off of the
Rob Fuquay:passion play, be relative and meaningful to anybody wherever
Rob Fuquay:they are, but something that people could look forward to if
Rob Fuquay:they were going on the trip. So that's how so this project
Brad Miller:connects with eating ready for 2020 connected
Brad Miller:with Iove with this project, and to put this resource together,
Brad Miller:and I've been privileged to travel with EO and a couple
Brad Miller:times to the Holy Land, in my case, and certainly on my bucket
Brad Miller:list is the passion play and hope to do that someday. But of
Brad Miller:course, the last couple years have been kind of everything's
Brad Miller:been kind of messed up by the COVID crisis, and so on. And
Brad Miller:we'll talk about how the impact of that here in just a second,
Brad Miller:but for those who may be a little bit uninitiated, give us
Brad Miller:a brief description of just what the passion play is, and maybe
Brad Miller:where it's located. And just a little context here for our
Brad Miller:conversation.
Rob Fuquay:Absolutely. So, the passion play in Oberammergau
Rob Fuquay:Germany, which is a tiny village nestled in a remote part of the
Rob Fuquay:Alps, in southern Germany, right before you go into Austria, very
Rob Fuquay:close to the Italian border. And this is the longest running
Rob Fuquay:continuous passion play in the world. It's, it is performed
Rob Fuquay:once every decade, usually in the first year of a new decade.
Rob Fuquay:So this one was, of course, supposed to be performed in
Rob Fuquay:2020. And they they do about 100 performances in a season starts
Rob Fuquay:in mid May ends in the very first days of October. They
Rob Fuquay:don't do seven days a week, it's more like four or five days a
Rob Fuquay:week. So it ends up being 100 102 performances something
Rob Fuquay:like that. It goes back to 1634 when the very first passion play
Rob Fuquay:was performed in over amor gal. And passion plays by villages
Rob Fuquay:was a fairly common thing. This was a way for a community that
Rob Fuquay:tended to be all Christian, all very strongly Catholic in many
Rob Fuquay:places. And passion plays were a way for a community to express
Rob Fuquay:its faith and devotion. And honestly, sometimes it was a way
Rob Fuquay:for a community to say we want to do this for God so that God
Rob Fuquay:will help us with something we need. Wow. So in 1632, a
Rob Fuquay:terrible plague broke out in Europe, probably resulting from
Rob Fuquay:the 30 Years War, something that was in the aftermath of the
Rob Fuquay:Protestant Reformation and the tensions that were happening in
Rob Fuquay:Europe, very much around religion with the the Protestant
Rob Fuquay:separation, but also it was a political war you know, having
Rob Fuquay:to do with who's in control, who really has power. And you know,
Rob Fuquay:as a result of many of these wars disease would break out and
Rob Fuquay:so a famine or not a famine Forgive me a disease spread a
Rob Fuquay:plague that was very contagious very deadly. And the people of
Rob Fuquay:Ober amor gal, hearing the news, of course, pre Internet,
Rob Fuquay:newspapers were not common, you know, you would only hear word
Rob Fuquay:of mouth, way off big cities somewhere Paris, maybe even
Rob Fuquay:Munich, not that far away. People are dying from a disease.
Rob Fuquay:And then they start hearing that it's getting closer, it's
Rob Fuquay:several villages away, but it's coming their direction. So the
Rob Fuquay:town council had a meeting. And they talked about all of the
Rob Fuquay:precautions they were going to establish. So they, they they
Rob Fuquay:had to shut down. They shut the doors of the gate to the city,
Rob Fuquay:no one was allowed into the city and nobody could leave and come
Rob Fuquay:back. So the people had to stay within the walls of the town.
Rob Fuquay:And the people who came in would have to quarantine for a period
Rob Fuquay:before they could interact. Now, this all sounds like ancient
Rob Fuquay:history, doesn't it? Until we get our own pandemic. Well,
Brad Miller:I was gonna say it does, but it does. You know, it
Brad Miller:rings true. Right. Right, right now.
Rob Fuquay:You know, when I started this project in
Rob Fuquay:2018 2019, you know, it just felt like ancient history stuff.
Rob Fuquay:And then in 2020, we were literally doing this in our
Rob Fuquay:church here at St. Luke's as a Lenten study, and we were on
Rob Fuquay:week three, when we shut
Brad Miller:down so we're talking March, mid March of
Brad Miller:2020.
Rob Fuquay:Exactly. I remember the day march the 15th 2020 was
Rob Fuquay:our first Sunday. Not having worship in person, and I'm
Rob Fuquay:standing in the sanctuary with a camera, doing the message about
Rob Fuquay:a community in Germany, that had to shut down because of a play,
Rob Fuquay:you know, almost 400 years ago, and here we were living it.
Rob Fuquay:Gosh, so we finished the study. And that was when a lot of
Rob Fuquay:groups were beginning to announce postponements. Of
Rob Fuquay:course, the NCAA, they were getting ready for the right. And
Rob Fuquay:they announced the, you know, the ceasing of the tournament
Rob Fuquay:that year, other groups even at a distance into the year, we're
Rob Fuquay:beginning to recognize we're not going to be able to have our
Rob Fuquay:event, the passion plan over ever gal was really quick to
Rob Fuquay:pull the plug. They didn't just say we're not doing it this
Rob Fuquay:year, we will reschedule for 21, they wasted no time saying we're
Rob Fuquay:going to put it off two years. Okay. 2022. And it just it was I
Rob Fuquay:remember hearing that thinking, holy cow, you know, two years
Rob Fuquay:from now. And it turned out to be a brilliant move.
Brad Miller:And I was on their website recently. Apparently, it
Brad Miller:is on schedule for this year, as far as I can tell.
Rob Fuquay:Right? It is to begin in mid March and mid May.
Rob Fuquay:And so that's why we're just trying to promote the the book
Rob Fuquay:and the series, again, for people, especially
Brad Miller:folks very applicable to the situation in
Brad Miller:our world. We've been in this pandemic for a couple years now.
Brad Miller:And in one form or another, it seems like it's gonna be ongoing
Brad Miller:presence in our lives. And so we have to learn how to live with
Brad Miller:it and the folks here, and overwrap or growl have learned
Brad Miller:to live within their own way. And there's some lessons to be
Brad Miller:learned from there. But I want to kind of take you to the core
Brad Miller:of the story about the passion play for a minute. And if you
Brad Miller:would, for just a few minutes unpack the story of Casper
Brad Miller:schist, and what he was all about in terms of how this was a
Brad Miller:part of this whole process of this coming to be
Rob Fuquay:right. Yes. So the the reason that this plague and
Rob Fuquay:and Oberammergau making a vow to start performing a passion play
Rob Fuquay:is because with all of their precautions in place, the plague
Rob Fuquay:still got into Oberammergau. So the legend has it that one of
Rob Fuquay:the residents Casper schissler, who was in another village for
Rob Fuquay:work, and it was time for an annual church festival that over
Rob Fuquay:amor gal had every year, that was like a three day event. It
Rob Fuquay:was a time when everybody came back, just a real joyous
Rob Fuquay:occasion. And he came back for the festival and found out they
Rob Fuquay:wouldn't let him in. So we don't really know how he got in, did
Rob Fuquay:he bribe somebody was the person at the gate that night a good
Rob Fuquay:friend, but somehow he was allowed to come in so he could
Rob Fuquay:go and be with his family. He had no idea that he had had the
Rob Fuquay:disease. He showed no signs of it. But within a day, he was
Rob Fuquay:starting to cough, and, and show signs of weariness. And of
Rob Fuquay:course, by that time, he's already infected his family. And
Rob Fuquay:not many days after that he was dead, his family was dead. And
Rob Fuquay:over the next several months, 84 members of the village would be
Rob Fuquay:debt. History historians believe that that might have been
Rob Fuquay:anywhere from 15 to 20%, of the total population of over amor
Rob Fuquay:gout. So the people called an emergency meeting in the church,
Rob Fuquay:this beautiful, ornate sanctuary. And they prayed in
Rob Fuquay:front of a crucifix that is still in the church today. And
Rob Fuquay:they made a vow, God, if you will spare our village any more
Rob Fuquay:deaths, we will hold a passion play every 10 years. And here's
Rob Fuquay:what gets interesting about this. And I'm talking a lot
Rob Fuquay:about so you might No, no, stop me. But learning all this
Rob Fuquay:information was a lot of fun. So here's what's interesting is the
Rob Fuquay:dating of it. There are some dates that show that the vow was
Rob Fuquay:made at a gathering in July. But it is attributed to October when
Rob Fuquay:you go back and there's an actual record of the deaths from
Rob Fuquay:that period. The last death occurred in July. And so you say
Rob Fuquay:now, wait a minute, why would they have waited? Three? If you
Rob Fuquay:were doing 123 funerals every week for a number of months? Why
Rob Fuquay:would you now wait three months since there was a death to make
Rob Fuquay:about? In the book? I speculate that what perhaps happened is
Rob Fuquay:the people met in July and made the vow and said God, if you'll
Rob Fuquay:spare us any more deaths, we will do this. And about three
Rob Fuquay:months later, I can imagine somebody going Hey, have you all
Rob Fuquay:notice something? I haven't had any more deaths. From the play,
Rob Fuquay:I think we made a promise I think we need to follow through.
Rob Fuquay:So anyway, there was a
Brad Miller:thing I find kind of interesting about this part
Brad Miller:of the story, as I read, read the book, is how you know the
Brad Miller:people. It had to be just an incredibly scary time as we've
Brad Miller:gone through just scary, fearful times in the last couple of
Brad Miller:years with the pandemic, and especially those first weeks,
Brad Miller:when we all were hunkered down. And you know, we were right,
Brad Miller:just isolated for one from another. I never forget this. My
Brad Miller:son is a hospice worker, I'm ever going to work in a hazmat
Brad Miller:suit. Oh, no. Right. And we literally prayed and cried over
Brad Miller:him, his went out the door, because he was going to go work
Brad Miller:in a COVID ward at a time when we none of us knew exactly what
Brad Miller:was going on. But I'm just saying that scary time. So this
Brad Miller:has been incredibly scary time for the people over have a bro.
Brad Miller:And that's a great and then but they responded by making a vow
Brad Miller:and following through and seemed like they kind of responded to
Brad Miller:fear with faith. I don't know. Yep, you unpack it with me? Do
Brad Miller:you think I'm in my reading into the story correctly? Or maybe
Brad Miller:there's some applications?
Rob Fuquay:That's a fear sections of a chapter. Yep.
Rob Fuquay:Instead of talk about, you know, instead of panic, or a way to
Rob Fuquay:face their panic was to turn to praise. And it's that point
Rob Fuquay:rather than giving into fear, they turn to their faith. And,
Rob Fuquay:you know, they go and make this vow before the crucifix. But
Rob Fuquay:yeah, I think it's interesting to look at the timing, because
Rob Fuquay:that happens in a lot of our lives, doesn't it that we make a
Rob Fuquay:promise to God? And then only in retrospect, do we have a sense
Rob Fuquay:of, of God answering a prayer, or God revealing God's self to
Rob Fuquay:us in some way, and then say, oh, what else? Okay, now, I made
Rob Fuquay:a deal here. And it's so easy to forget and just move on past the
Rob Fuquay:blessing. But to me, that's the power of this, that the people
Rob Fuquay:remember their vow and their promise. And they said, We've
Rob Fuquay:got to keep it. And so they had some kind of gathering in
Rob Fuquay:October. That was a dedication to keep this bow. And the next
Rob Fuquay:Pentecost was when they performed the play, probably at
Rob Fuquay:that time, because Pentecost is a significant Sunday in the
Rob Fuquay:church, and especially in that time, it would have been a
Rob Fuquay:festival. But they built a Play platform, in the cemetery, over
Rob Fuquay:the graves of the people who would die. Oh my gosh, and that
Rob Fuquay:was where they held the first play. And that began the
Rob Fuquay:tradition that eventually, I think by 1670, moved to be the
Rob Fuquay:start of a new decade when they performed.
Brad Miller:And here's the interesting thing about it, it
Brad Miller:just shows the incredible resilience, and persistence, and
Brad Miller:the power of the vowel to not let it go. They've kept it going
Brad Miller:for 300 Am I get my math is 300 years, 300 plus years.
Rob Fuquay:386 coming up on Yeah, before 400 The next, the
Rob Fuquay:next time they'll perform. So just
Brad Miller:to get perspective, you know, well, before we the
Brad Miller:United States was even founded, you know, with this have been
Brad Miller:going on just to give a little bit of context there. And, and
Brad Miller:this think Sayla, but about how this is kind of a a testimony to
Brad Miller:grace in the midst of despair or grace, in the midst of
Brad Miller:desperation, say something about that?
Rob Fuquay:Yeah. Well, it is a recognition that as awful as
Rob Fuquay:the, as the event was, and losing the number of people they
Rob Fuquay:did in their village, there was a coming out of it, and a
Rob Fuquay:recognition that God had been with them, and that God answered
Rob Fuquay:a prayer and a belief. Now, regardless of what we would say
Rob Fuquay:about that today for the people, then they had a belief that God
Rob Fuquay:had answered the prayer. And it summoned within them a need to
Rob Fuquay:respond in gratitude to God. And so they began the practice of
Rob Fuquay:offering this passion play in the creation of the resource. At
Rob Fuquay:first I just remembered being offered this opportunity and
Rob Fuquay:thinking, how do you create, you know, important spiritual
Rob Fuquay:themes, out of a passion play out of this story of a history
Rob Fuquay:of a play, you know, it's not based. The idea of the book
Rob Fuquay:itself, at least is not based on a book of the Bible. It's not
Rob Fuquay:like the I am sayings of Jesus. But the more we started digging
Rob Fuquay:away at this, we realize there are great themes there. The
Rob Fuquay:power of a vow and how our lives are shaped by vows. The
Rob Fuquay:significance of community. And in that chapter, we dig into the
Rob Fuquay:the incivility and the divisions of our world today that so
Rob Fuquay:fracture community that many churches are dealing with, and I
Rob Fuquay:think we're experiencing that even more coming through this
Rob Fuquay:pandemic, then then we even felt before we thought it was bad
Rob Fuquay:enough before we're feeling it even even more right
Brad Miller:polarization in politics, the church is just
Brad Miller:really, you know, discouraging at times. It really is.
Rob Fuquay:Yeah. But I think it makes that chapter even more
Rob Fuquay:meaningful. And just to pause on that thought, right there
Rob Fuquay:Chapter Two dealing with community. It was fun to go
Rob Fuquay:there, we filmed the DVD on location, and to interview the
Rob Fuquay:director and, and people who remembered stories in the past
Rob Fuquay:from the village, when the village got at odds with each
Rob Fuquay:other. When people had suggestions of making changes to
Rob Fuquay:the script. And the old guard versus the new reformers and
Rob Fuquay:people who couldn't even speak to each other until they got on
Rob Fuquay:stage to act this out. I just thought, boy, what relevance to
Rob Fuquay:our world right now?
Brad Miller:Well, and but some of that got through it, because
Brad Miller:of the bigger vision Disney the bigger vision of what they had.
Brad Miller:And I'm also just was intrigued by you know, I've known about
Brad Miller:this for some time, but I was intrigued about how this became
Brad Miller:a the entire village project. And also when you do this, this
Brad Miller:is an all day affair, a six hour affair, for instance, when you
Brad Miller:do this, and it is consuming of this entire village. So it
Brad Miller:really really does take a village to and a community to
Brad Miller:pull this off.
Rob Fuquay:And not just the six hours of the play performance,
Rob Fuquay:but the three hours in between. So you you do three hours, you
Rob Fuquay:take a meal break, and then you come back for the final three
Rob Fuquay:hours. Well, this is just a village of 5000 people. And the
Rob Fuquay:play theater seats. I'm sorry, said five 5000 residents in
Rob Fuquay:O'Brien regale the theater seats 5000. So every day the play is
Rob Fuquay:performed. The number of people in the village dub Wow.
Brad Miller:Which means all services in the village have to
Brad Miller:come to are overwhelmed
Rob Fuquay:when they don't have enough restaurants lodging, what
Rob Fuquay:have your meal, all these people, it requires people
Rob Fuquay:having folks in their home Oh, wow, to serve a meal to them. I
Rob Fuquay:mean, it literally does take the whole village. So there are some
Rob Fuquay:2500 people involved in the play itself, either as actors on the
Rob Fuquay:stage, or stage hands, people doing behind the scenes work, or
Rob Fuquay:all of the service related activity, shuttle bus drivers,
Rob Fuquay:Usher's, you know, whatever it might mean. So it is something
Rob Fuquay:that now has formed that community in a very, very
Rob Fuquay:significant way
Brad Miller:total immersion, really, totally immersed into
Brad Miller:the mission immersion of the mission? Oh, yeah, kind of like
Brad Miller:that, in terms of, you know, what if we, in our churches or
Brad Miller:our communities, really became totally consumed or immersed in
Brad Miller:whatever the mission may be, you know, helping homeless folks
Brad Miller:whatever would be, you know, if we got truly immersed in that,
Brad Miller:that would be an awesome thing to do.
Rob Fuquay:And, you know, in all honesty, I talked to people
Rob Fuquay:where they were very honest about their own faith. And some
Rob Fuquay:of the damaging aspects of the Catholic Church that have
Rob Fuquay:happened in the last few years, have really turned a good many
Rob Fuquay:people away from the church, and people were honest about Yes. So
Rob Fuquay:their commitment to carry out this this vow and and perform
Rob Fuquay:this play every 10 years. It's not just their belief in God,
Rob Fuquay:their faith in God, it there's also something about their
Rob Fuquay:commitment to their community. And that because I am from this
Rob Fuquay:village, and in former times it used to be that you had to be a
Rob Fuquay:resident in the village a minimum 20 years. Before you
Rob Fuquay:could be in the flight, sort of
Brad Miller:like some churches, you got to be around 20 years.
Brad Miller:On the ad board or whatever, the trustees especially. Yeah.
Rob Fuquay:But, you know, the point being is that's the power
Rob Fuquay:of the of the community of work.
Brad Miller:And yet we're folk so some of the other I'm sorry,
Brad Miller:go ahead. I was just saying, Get the focus. The focus of this is
Brad Miller:about the passion story, the Passion Week story, right? And
Brad Miller:about, yes, telling of that story, and the retelling of that
Brad Miller:story, over and over and over again. I think there's some
Brad Miller:power in the telling of the story. And then there's got to
Brad Miller:be some lessons we can learn there about how we can reframe
Brad Miller:the passion story to be relevant to our world right now. Because
Brad Miller:there's some would say yeah, it is ancient. It is 400 years. Old
Brad Miller:House irrelevant to me now. But I'd say a word about telling
Brad Miller:story and retelling the story to be relevant now.
Rob Fuquay:Oh, yeah. So one of my favorite chapters, preparing
Rob Fuquay:it in the book is called telling a better story. So after the
Rob Fuquay:chapter on community, there's a chapter about ritual. The
Rob Fuquay:significance of this, of this sameness that this village
Rob Fuquay:follows every 10 years, and it's more than the year you put on
Rob Fuquay:the play. There are all kinds of traditions on the front end of
Rob Fuquay:that. Then there's a chapter on living the story, how we make
Rob Fuquay:our lives a stage, for God's story to be told. The last
Rob Fuquay:chapters on the power of the cross, but the fifth chapter, we
Rob Fuquay:dug into the negative aspects of passion plays in the history of
Rob Fuquay:Europe, that very often passion plays would stir waves of anti
Rob Fuquay:semitism. Because so many of the plays are presented from the
Rob Fuquay:angle of DSI, the killing of God
Brad Miller:by and then I use the Judas. Yeah, no,
Rob Fuquay:yes, exactly. And, and so the current director, who
Rob Fuquay:started his first year directing the passion play Christian
Rob Fuquay:struggle, began in 1990. And his aim was to bring a change to the
Rob Fuquay:way they told their story and the script and you go, Wait a
Rob Fuquay:minute, how can you tell the passion story of Jesus
Rob Fuquay:differently? I mean, it's, it's in the Bible, it's what it is,
Rob Fuquay:you know, you can't change it. But as we all know, the way we
Rob Fuquay:tell a story and understand the story, with the subtle nuances
Rob Fuquay:and emphases that we give, can really change the meaning. And
Rob Fuquay:the way this story was told over some years, the costuming that
Rob Fuquay:was used, settle on, they actually had the Pharisees were
Rob Fuquay:a type of hat that was meant to look like religious authority.
Rob Fuquay:Okay, but the way they crafted those hats, they look like giant
Rob Fuquay:horns, oh, my goodness, okay. Now without without saying a
Rob Fuquay:word, what are you communicating their
Brad Miller:message was clear when they made demonizing the
Brad Miller:other,
Rob Fuquay:and exactly, the total demonizing the other. They
Rob Fuquay:made Judas look as dark as they could. And so Christian StuCo
Rob Fuquay:takes over the play. And he changes the costume. And he
Rob Fuquay:changes a lot of this emphasis so that people would have an
Rob Fuquay:appreciation for the traditions and the values of Judaism. And
Rob Fuquay:he really changed the way people saw Judas and spent time trying
Rob Fuquay:to understand what Judas did, perhaps from an angle of really
Rob Fuquay:wanting religious leadership to understand Jesus the way he
Rob Fuquay:understood Jesus, as somebody who was trying to broker peace,
Rob Fuquay:and and just help them to get it
Brad Miller:that the draft some brief for this trying to change
Brad Miller:things. Yeah.
Rob Fuquay:Well, you know, in the in the initial efforts to
Rob Fuquay:make any change without even knowing what the changes were,
Rob Fuquay:be, there were reactions. Sure. When people experienced this,
Rob Fuquay:the first time he saw that Judas was presented in a way that when
Rob Fuquay:he realized the depth of what he had done, and he decides I have,
Rob Fuquay:I have no no choice but to take my life. That's it. His grief is
Rob Fuquay:that is just that deep, and gut wrenching to him. They say that
Rob Fuquay:people in the audience were wiping tears from their eyes,
Rob Fuquay:goodness, in previous place, when Judas takes us life, going
Rob Fuquay:back, you know, 100 years, that might have been a time when
Rob Fuquay:people broke out into applause, and cheers. So telling a better
Rob Fuquay:story. Until it was very, very meaningful to me, because I just
Rob Fuquay:think in a day and time, where so many people just struggle to
Rob Fuquay:understand the challenges of people different from them. It
Rob Fuquay:makes that chapter so rich, and so very meaningful, and even
Rob Fuquay:stories of Obama gal, about World War Two, and they're not
Rob Fuquay:censure and some incidences that actually happened in over amor
Rob Fuquay:Gao. It to me was very powerful. And I think
Brad Miller:one of the things we can learn from this story and
Brad Miller:from your resource and talking about how people can get a hold
Brad Miller:of this and so on, but we tell a better story. It has to be a
Brad Miller:story that relates to our world right now and certainly the
Brad Miller:context of the living in the pandemic and so on as part of
Brad Miller:it. But I love the story you told in in your book Have to
Brad Miller:fess up here, Rob. I'm a Cubs fan. I know that's hard for some
Brad Miller:people to swallow the bar. But I really would like you to share a
Brad Miller:little bit about the story of Steve Bartman, and how that
Brad Miller:might relate to how we can really take the context of a
Brad Miller:life transformation story that's here into our modern context.
Brad Miller:Would you go there, please? Well,
Rob Fuquay:well, you might, you can set it up or I can set it up
Rob Fuquay:what year was that? They played the Marlins.
Brad Miller:1999 2003 or something like that.
Rob Fuquay:No, that's right. That's right. Yeah, it was in
Rob Fuquay:the 2000. I'm sorry, I am way off. It was in the 2000s. There
Brad Miller:legitimate chance of the World Series in forever,
Brad Miller:you know,
Rob Fuquay:bingo. And they are ahead and in command of winning
Rob Fuquay:the National League Championship in Chicago. And in a crucial
Rob Fuquay:moment in the game foul ball hit to the side, Steve Bartman, they
Rob Fuquay:are wearing his cubs hat does what any of us would do reach up
Rob Fuquay:to catch Foul ball. And at first it looked like he tangled up
Rob Fuquay:with the out of the Cubs outfielder trying to make the
Rob Fuquay:catch. If he makes the catch, it's the third out of the
Rob Fuquay:inning. They're done. That's the game and he's not able to make
Rob Fuquay:the catch. Oh, yeah. And so that began an eight run inning or at
Rob Fuquay:least it went on for an eight run ending with two outs right?
Rob Fuquay:The Marlins scored eight runs. When the game they end up going
Rob Fuquay:game seven in Miami, they win national championship. In that
Rob Fuquay:moment, the crowd around Steve Bartman was so angry, so
Rob Fuquay:vicious, yelling threats at him, throwing things at them, that
Rob Fuquay:security had to come down and, and lead him out. And they took
Rob Fuquay:him to a private room, where he remained until everybody had
Rob Fuquay:cleared the stadium after the game. And then they let him go
Rob Fuquay:home. And there are great stories about him. In fact, when
Rob Fuquay:the Cubs won the World Series Finally, after what, 108 years
Rob Fuquay:2016 2016 they win, they did the ring ceremony for everybody on
Rob Fuquay:that team. They had Bartman come to present a ring to him. And
Rob Fuquay:there's just a really beautiful statement that he makes. But the
Rob Fuquay:the point, the point is,
Brad Miller:he uh, he had, he took a lot of abuse for years
Brad Miller:after the accident. And then there was a time of redemption,
Brad Miller:a retelling of the story here. And I'd say I love this and I'm
Brad Miller:hopeful and about stories like Oprah grab, right, gosh, Oprah
Brad Miller:gram ago and the passion play and Steve Barba and others were,
Brad Miller:you know, the time we live in right now, Rob, which is so
Brad Miller:polarized in, in politics, in culture, about matters of the
Brad Miller:environment, all kinds of things, and certainly in our
Brad Miller:church with schisms and so on at hand. I'm hopeful that we can
Brad Miller:come out of a time of chaos, and despair, right. And maybe maybe
Brad Miller:years down the road, who knows, but we can come to a time of
Brad Miller:healing and wholeness. I was noticed that in the Google put
Brad Miller:out a video that the greatest search items for to the tune of
Brad Miller:2021, that all number of things were the greatest searches on
Brad Miller:Google. And the top search item was the phrase how to heal. And
Brad Miller:just very interested in that in terms of how that implies that
Brad Miller:we, you know, if you if you want to if you search for how to
Brad Miller:heal, that means you're broken, you're hurting, you're in pain.
Brad Miller:So I just think we're at a time when we need a retelling of the
Brad Miller:story. And perhaps this resource can help to do that. So how do
Brad Miller:you see this resource, perhaps being helpful? As local churches
Brad Miller:use this, as other entities may people read the book or churches
Brad Miller:use this resource? I think you know, I
Rob Fuquay:think it has a number of dimensions. It has a
Rob Fuquay:number of dimensions to it. I think there's a level of just a
Rob Fuquay:personal faith connection. As we think about things like vows and
Rob Fuquay:how we've been shaped, and the way God has been present through
Rob Fuquay:our lives. The ritual, you know, the rituals of our lives, and
Rob Fuquay:what's important to us what helps connect us to God, the way
Rob Fuquay:we let our lives tell a story. So it's a book that just makes
Rob Fuquay:you pause and think about your own life. It also has the
Rob Fuquay:element to it like the chapter on community, where in a group,
Rob Fuquay:if you do the study that way, it is a great opportunity to just
Rob Fuquay:think about what's going on in human community in our world
Rob Fuquay:right now and in our country. And why are we so divided? And
Rob Fuquay:what would help? What are our own Christian values that maybe
Rob Fuquay:we need to just be more intentional about practicing and
Rob Fuquay:lifting up? Sometimes churches it's a great opportunity for a
Rob Fuquay:church to say, how are we doing in Unity? How are we
Rob Fuquay:experiencing division right now? And what can we do about that?
Rob Fuquay:What can we do to help our own community live together? other
Rob Fuquay:better. And then I think some of the other chapters, like telling
Rob Fuquay:a better story. It to me, there's just a lot of applicable
Rob Fuquay:value there for people living in some kind of brokenness for
Rob Fuquay:groups of people struggling to understand others, and how we
Rob Fuquay:all have that have that opportunity to go, Wait a minute
Rob Fuquay:there. We get so worked up and what is truth these days? What
Rob Fuquay:is true, what is true? Well, if you think about it, some of the
Rob Fuquay:most powerful life changing events of the Gospel were based
Rob Fuquay:on untruths. There was no prodigal son, Jesus made up the
Rob Fuquay:story. It was fiction. There was no good Samaritan, Jesus made up
Rob Fuquay:the story. pure fiction, not true. But it was true. Because
Rob Fuquay:what he's talking about is the power of forgiveness, and the
Rob Fuquay:power of compassion and understanding that can change
Rob Fuquay:our lives for the better. Now that's truth. So it's a great
Rob Fuquay:way to say wait a minute, what's, what's a better story
Rob Fuquay:that I can tell, that points to something that I really do
Rob Fuquay:believe deep down is true. And I want my life to reflect that
Brad Miller:transformation part of the Bible and of the of our
Brad Miller:Christian walk, it is the passion story, it is the story
Brad Miller:of going you know, from all the passionate moments, of betrayal,
Brad Miller:of hurt, pain, of, of denial, all of that all the way through,
Brad Miller:you know, he ridiculed, and then did a crucifixion and the
Brad Miller:resurrection is take through through all walks of life. One
Rob Fuquay:last thing I would say about it, that was fun, too.
Rob Fuquay:Because anytime you work on a while, you know this as a pastor
Rob Fuquay:working on a sermon, you learn a lot when you're doing your study
Rob Fuquay:and homework and working on the last chapter on the power of the
Rob Fuquay:cross. And thinking about the crucifix in the Catholic faith
Rob Fuquay:and where that comes from and what's meaningful about it. I
Rob Fuquay:did a lot of historical research that was rich and meaningful.
Rob Fuquay:But I tell a story in the book about the crucifix that is
Rob Fuquay:outside of the church in Oberammergau. And it's it's a
Rob Fuquay:life sized crucifix on the wall of the church. And Jesus is, is
Rob Fuquay:on the cross with eyes opened. And of course, as Christians, we
Rob Fuquay:have trouble with the crucifix in the first place, we believe,
Rob Fuquay:empty cross it's Easter's resurrection, we want to get on
Rob Fuquay:to victory and celebration, right? There's something about
Rob Fuquay:the body of Christ on the cross, that keeps us humble, that keeps
Rob Fuquay:us aware of the price God pays on our behalf. And I believe
Rob Fuquay:it's meant to put in us a sense of our own value and worth in
Rob Fuquay:God's eyes. And to keep us humble, and also grateful. So
Rob Fuquay:the last day of filming there, it's toward evening, the day
Rob Fuquay:lights fading. And we filmed the last piece and um, for the who
Rob Fuquay:did the filming, to kind of get all the equipment packed up.
Rob Fuquay:He's off at a different part of the cemetery outside the church.
Rob Fuquay:And I'm there by myself and I'm walking underneath that
Rob Fuquay:crucifix. And the eyes of Jesus are in such a way that no matter
Rob Fuquay:where you're standing, it feels like he's looking right at you.
Rob Fuquay:Oh, wow. And I just remembered standing there that evening,
Rob Fuquay:looking up at the cross Jesus looking at me. And all I could
Rob Fuquay:just say in a prayer was Thank you. Wow, thank you and I Tran
Rob Fuquay:the rows there, there is a power power that I believe everything
Rob Fuquay:about this play in this resource is meant to take us to and that
Rob Fuquay:is how much we mean to guys. And that's the goal. Well, that's
Brad Miller:awesome. What tell us what, what folks let's say
Brad Miller:there's a local church pastor or a group that thinks Okay, here's
Brad Miller:a possible resource for the Lenten season or for Easter
Brad Miller:time. Are they going to find this resource where they're
Brad Miller:going to find in the you know, the book Leaders Guide the DVD
Brad Miller:tell us a bit about what they're going to see visually on the
Brad Miller:DVD? Just what what people can find in this resource?
Rob Fuquay:Sure. So the DVD for the small group companions about
Rob Fuquay:a six to 10 minute clip that you would watch each week for that
Rob Fuquay:session. The scenery is absolutely stunning. The person
Rob Fuquay:on our staff who went to film it just it's such a terrific job he
Rob Fuquay:had a drone so you get these high aerial views of over amor
Rob Fuquay:gow of the Alpine mountains. And so it's just absolutely
Rob Fuquay:beautiful. There interviews with people from the village people
Rob Fuquay:in the play the person who's going to be playing Jesus coming
Rob Fuquay:up the director of the play, and I just think it makes it a lot
Rob Fuquay:of fun to get that perspective. There is a media page that talks
Rob Fuquay:about ways you can get the information through Instagram
Rob Fuquay:through A Facebook and we can send this to you or we can show
Rob Fuquay:it If you have that ability on the screen to show how people
Rob Fuquay:can access the social resources that are available. It's through
Rob Fuquay:Abington press. You can of course, get it through Amazon.
Rob Fuquay:So you could just go to Amazon or Amazon and you know, put the
Rob Fuquay:title, the passion play the living the story of Christ last
Rob Fuquay:days, it would come up that way. Or you can email me or let me
Rob Fuquay:tell you even better email my sister, okay, and she can send
Rob Fuquay:the media page to anybody who reaches out to her Marsha ma R
Rob Fuquay:SHA dot Thompson, Marcia Thompson at St. Luke's umc.com.
Brad Miller:Okay, great. Well, we'll put links to that and all
Brad Miller:the resources, all our links to all the media resources and how
Brad Miller:people can get this resource at our website, United Methodist
Brad Miller:podcast.com. It'll be in the show notes there and other ways
Brad Miller:that we have this. And I just want to say that in a time of
Brad Miller:great distress in our world, and in our lives personally and, and
Brad Miller:in our society, I just said some nice things, we got to get back
Brad Miller:to Jesus, we got to get back to the cross, oh, at some
Brad Miller:foundational thing. And there's something to be said about the
Brad Miller:history for almost 380 something years of this history. It's not
Brad Miller:to be said about the devoutness the people there all through
Brad Miller:history, all the ups and downs, interpersonally all the dynamics
Brad Miller:that go on in any group of people. And certainly, you know,
Brad Miller:in this particular circumstance, Germany, you got Nazi ism and
Brad Miller:anti semitism and credible atrocities that have happened.
Brad Miller:And we have lots of really ugly things going on our world right
Brad Miller:now. But man, if we don't get back to kind of a focus on Jesus
Brad Miller:focus on the cross as we Christian folks, you know, we're
Brad Miller:really lost then. And so I will,
Rob Fuquay:I will say, I will say, Brad that, you know, I'm
Rob Fuquay:doing this resource again, right now, in a group here in the
Rob Fuquay:church, two years later from when it was meant to be used. I
Rob Fuquay:think it is more meaningful now than it would have been two
Rob Fuquay:years ago. Because we understand the experience that brought
Rob Fuquay:about this passion planogram ergo, we are living through our
Rob Fuquay:own pandemic, we are experiencing our own divisions
Rob Fuquay:and community. And, you know, we we have a need for Jesus in a
Rob Fuquay:way that we didn't have two years ago. I think we're very, I
Rob Fuquay:find it even that much richer,
Brad Miller:wherever we're very aware now of our own humanity
Brad Miller:and our own fragility of life and all kinds of other things.
Brad Miller:And, yeah, what a better time than this. I just want to thank
Brad Miller:you, Rob, you've been a very prolific in creating resources
Brad Miller:and other things for the church of Phoenix be helpful to people
Brad Miller:and latest resource and I'm going to hold it up because we
Brad Miller:will be doing this on YouTube will be called is called the
Brad Miller:passion play. Live in the store of Christ last days inspired by
Brad Miller:the overgrow passion Spiel by Rob few clay. And what a great
Brad Miller:resource you'll find connections at United Methodist podcast.com.
Brad Miller:Rob, any last words of encouragement to folks that may
Brad Miller:be listening to our voices to hear today?
Rob Fuquay:No, I just encourage folks to give it a look and, and
Rob Fuquay:hope that will be very meaningful. Again, I think for
Rob Fuquay:people personally for groups that would do it together for
Rob Fuquay:entire churches. And thank you, thanks for the chance just to
Rob Fuquay:talk about it with you here today. As you can tell, I love
Rob Fuquay:it because I got to go and be there at a wonderful time. As I
Rob Fuquay:mentioned, it's online and experience something about the
Rob Fuquay:community life the pride that they have in it. I was I was in
Rob Fuquay:over amor gal 19 months before what was supposed to be the
Rob Fuquay:first performance in 2020. So this was October 2018. That's
Rob Fuquay:when they announced the cast and feeling. I mean, you got the
Rob Fuquay:sense that this was really for the people who live there. This
Rob Fuquay:was their special okay, because now they're celebrating their
Rob Fuquay:kids and family members and neighbors who are going to be
Rob Fuquay:announced in the upcoming play. And you just felt that pride and
Rob Fuquay:so learning the history behind it and thinking about the
Rob Fuquay:spiritual connections to our own lives today. It's just a story,
Rob Fuquay:a film a
Brad Miller:heritage and a legacy. Right so we appreciate
Brad Miller:your contribution to this and in for being our guest today on the
Brad Miller:United Methodist people podcast with Reverend Dr. Brad Miller.
Brad Miller:Thank you to our guests, Pastor Reverend Rob refu clay Thank
